tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post6585949290088710177..comments2024-03-15T09:26:02.796-05:00Comments on PROJECT MAYHEM: Do kids books have to be about kids? by Joanna RoddyProject Mayhemhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05154342399869089664noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-60119321700965586992015-09-14T13:21:12.556-05:002015-09-14T13:21:12.556-05:00Well said, Eden!Well said, Eden!Joanna Roddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15872747084305014996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-68558419380740204572015-09-13T13:50:55.069-05:002015-09-13T13:50:55.069-05:00I recently discovered the Flavia books too, Joanna...I recently discovered the Flavia books too, Joanna, and think they are tops! And I remember being in a bookshop in London and seeing a new book in the kids' section, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone...and then seeing the same book with a different cover in the grown-up folks' book section. The publisher had simply made two different covers thinking an adult might not be willing to read something with a colorful cover (the adult cover was dark and brooding in black & white.) And what kid doesn't love a pirate? Old, scraggily, and bearded. Let's face it, a great story will be loved by all.eden unger bowditchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17874537224610872095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-90270598660198161422015-09-03T07:26:04.975-05:002015-09-03T07:26:04.975-05:00I discovered Flavia when a book blogger shared the...I discovered Flavia when a book blogger shared the THE SWEETNESS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PIE was an excellent audio book. What a phenomenal character!<br /><br />Not only are we to have children protagonists, we're not to have too many adult characters at all. I'm currently working on a Klondike gold rush novel, which apart from the protagonist and his sixteen-year-old brother (not very MG-y, right?) is the only kid in the story (apart from a girl that gets a few lines). I was curious if my editor would have me add in more kids. So far, not an issue! I love this because first there weren't many kids in the Klondike (well, some, but not many), and my character is based on Huck Finn, another story mainly filled with adults.<br /><br />Wonderful post!Caroline Starr Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04597510685273079757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-1968836512386681292015-09-02T22:17:24.756-05:002015-09-02T22:17:24.756-05:00I suppose one advantage to historical fiction, and...I suppose one advantage to historical fiction, and fantasy or science fiction, is that you can have child characters with adult roles. A couple hundred years ago, a 14 year old basically was an adult.Kris Bockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217265282250089583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-68933805491495702692015-09-02T22:17:23.346-05:002015-09-02T22:17:23.346-05:00I suppose one advantage to historical fiction, and...I suppose one advantage to historical fiction, and fantasy or science fiction, is that you can have child characters with adult roles. A couple hundred years ago, a 14 year old basically was an adult.Kris Bockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217265282250089583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-11480301789911866942015-09-02T22:17:16.789-05:002015-09-02T22:17:16.789-05:00I suppose one advantage to historical fiction, and...I suppose one advantage to historical fiction, and fantasy or science fiction, is that you can have child characters with adult roles. A couple hundred years ago, a 14 year old basically was an adult.Kris Bockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217265282250089583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-16280667927153917222015-09-02T11:29:19.390-05:002015-09-02T11:29:19.390-05:00It's actually quite a bit like BOOK THIEF in t...It's actually quite a bit like BOOK THIEF in that way because the two protagonists mature from children into teenagers, and although it is not narrated by death (it's an anonymous omniscient third person narrator), it's also still not what I would call a MG or YA book, but it's also not necessarily purely and adult "literary novel" either. It's a bit nebulous, to be honest, but it's brilliant and I think it won an NBA and a Pulitzer, so definitely worth reading.Matthew MacNishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03264738483763244969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-80299627018348214352015-09-02T11:01:26.170-05:002015-09-02T11:01:26.170-05:00You must, Michael! Such a treat to read.You must, Michael! Such a treat to read.Joanna Roddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15872747084305014996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-72312695474752025092015-09-02T11:01:01.266-05:002015-09-02T11:01:01.266-05:00It's a second recommendation for me too! I'...It's a second recommendation for me too! I'll have to check it out. Is the narrative POV a child?Joanna Roddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15872747084305014996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-90002745608137099812015-09-02T11:00:01.174-05:002015-09-02T11:00:01.174-05:00Lots to respond to here, Taurean, but I'll jus...Lots to respond to here, Taurean, but I'll just say that your comments serve to remind me that there is infinite complexity to children and adults. When writing for child readers, I hope we can represent that well, whichever side of the age line we're writing about. Joanna Roddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15872747084305014996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-16878967992938862692015-09-02T10:41:19.417-05:002015-09-02T10:41:19.417-05:00It is absolutely magical. The prose! The character...It is absolutely magical. The prose! The characters! The strife! The romance of radio. Doerr is a genius and he writes like a poet.Matthew MacNishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03264738483763244969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-66999339536619597062015-09-02T10:14:46.111-05:002015-09-02T10:14:46.111-05:00Second time this week someone's mentioned ALL ...Second time this week someone's mentioned ALL THE LIGHT WE CANNOT SEE. Must read!Michael G-Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07947421844294471304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-67118781562790222102015-09-02T10:13:54.947-05:002015-09-02T10:13:54.947-05:00I want to read about Flavia now!
Great post, Joan...I want to read about Flavia now!<br /><br />Great post, Joanna.Michael G-Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07947421844294471304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-30348668849844361922015-09-02T09:25:03.738-05:002015-09-02T09:25:03.738-05:00This is a fascinating question! I'm currently ...This is a fascinating question! I'm currently reading ALL THE LIGHT WE CANNOT SEE, by Anthony Doerr (which is brilliant and brutal and beautifully written, BTW), and it reminds me in many ways of THE BOOK THIEF, by Markus Zusak, not only because of WWII, but also because of it being about children, but not necessarily for children.<br /><br />I think this is one of those things that is very hard to define, but if you read a lot, especially if you read kidlit and adultlit, you'll know if when you see it.Matthew MacNishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03264738483763244969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-26387078917595359762015-09-02T08:03:09.217-05:002015-09-02T08:03:09.217-05:00EDIT: "Before I go on, I do have to acknowled...EDIT: "Before I go on, I do have to acknowledge that part of the INSISTENCE of kid or teen driven stories is because we can risk coming off like a boring "know it all" thinly disguised moral tale devoid of entertainment and strong storytelling."Taurean Watkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604609379930060667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-2624097941027726172015-09-02T07:35:56.421-05:002015-09-02T07:35:56.421-05:00I'm sorry I sound angry, and I'm certainly...I'm sorry I sound angry, and I'm certainly NOT angry at Joanne, your post is a great thing to think about.<br /><br />I was just speaking to my personal experience, both as author and reader <b>(and former kid)</b>, <a href="http://talkinganimaladdicts.com/lettersfromed8/" rel="nofollow">especially my recent breakdown back in August</a> <b>(which led me back into therapy)</b> <br /><br />Any anger is about the challenge, not anyone bringing it up.<br /><br />I'm just probably hyper-sensitive to the whole thing. But I can't be alone in this struggle.Taurean Watkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604609379930060667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-62147976523216435452015-09-02T07:26:45.557-05:002015-09-02T07:26:45.557-05:00While some adults certainly can insultingly undere...While some adults certainly can insultingly underestimate what kids and teens can do given the chance and opportunity, we shouldn't in any way belittle what those of us OLDER THAN 18 have to deal with and live every day because we can't do anything about it but endure.<br /><br />It's a myth that and adults are all callous, narrow-minded, or cold-hearted cowards who just "run away."<br /><br />I didn't run away. But I'm not teflon with organs. I fail, bleed, cry and scream not because I'm Joker-level insane, but because I'm an imperfect human being. <br /><br />I think this is why I can't read most books by Dahl, for example, because the adults are viewed by such a narrow lens in order for the kids to shine, and I know there are jerks like that, but I worry it gives the impression that everything about adulthood is sick and twisted. <br /><br />Even as a kid myself, I felt this way, especially because I had to "GROW UP" for my life to get any semblance of "Better."Taurean Watkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604609379930060667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-18654555693877060072015-09-02T07:24:55.214-05:002015-09-02T07:24:55.214-05:00My own writing flies in the face of that myth. &qu...My own writing flies in the face of that myth. <a href="http://www.gabrielandrum.com" rel="nofollow">"GABRIEL"</a> would NOT be as strong a story as it is if I stayed the angry kid victim I once was. <br /><br />While I in no way excuse bullying <b>(esp. when it causes death and/or life-altering injury)</b>, sometimes those bullies are treated as badly as they treat others, I had to GROW UP to empathize with that, <a href="https://youtu.be/cC-Jw-Axmjo?list=PLIPTcJzrVI75k1M1P6N_pM9iaIUO-5Q7R" rel="nofollow">and give Rum <b>(the story's antagonist)</b> the three-dimensional life he, and those like him, deserves.</a><br /><br />There are things I have to deal with and live through that even the most resilient child or teen would shiver in fear over. To mock that is just as cruel as anything the meanest and most insensitive adults you know could do to your, your kids, your grandkids, great-grandkids or your students under 18.<br /><br />While some adults certainly can insultingly underestimate what kids and teens can do given the chance and opportunity.<br /><br />We shouldn't in any way belittle what those of us OLDER THAN 18 have to deal with, and live every day, because we can't do anything about it but endure.<br /><br />To be continued...Taurean Watkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604609379930060667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-21398191271829980422015-09-02T07:21:57.300-05:002015-09-02T07:21:57.300-05:00There's a difference between negligence and se...There's a difference between negligence and self-care we all need, regardless if we have children to raise or not. <br /><br />I'm a non-parent, so take it with the proverbial grain of salt you will, but there is a difference between healthy self-care, and being self-obsessed.<br /><br />But these days especially, all we preach to kids and teens is "Be selfless, sacrifice anything you want for the good of the family, or the world" and I know I'm exaggerating a little but it does FEEL that way and it can't just be me.<br /><br />While I certainly don't want kids and teens to have face excess trauma, I do think some writers <b>(some parents and teachers, too)</b> idealize childhood so much, it makes those of us who didn't see life start to improve until adulthood, like me, feel like freaks of society. <br /><br />I know it's not the intention, and possibly because I have Asperger's Syndrome, I misread sarcasm dn Hyperbolic statements kidlit writers in particular often make, but I do still think there's a hint of "Being a kid is awesome, adulthood's only misery, declining health and taxes" in those statements, and I don't think that's a healthy or hopeful message for ANYONE. <br /><br />I know we have lot of parents and teachers <b>(retired or still in classrooms)</b> in the "Project Mayhem" community, and I in no way mean any disrespect for what your strive toward, but I can only speak for me, and what I had to live, and what I've seen in those around me. <br /><br />Perhaps my experience is foreign to you, but it's REAL, even if you or those you serve were spared the struggles I faced in and out of school.<br /><br />While I see truth in the L'Engle quote above, I think it's insensitive to assume kids and teens are the enlightened and adults are narrow-minded narcissists, selfish beyond imagining...<br /><br />To be continued...<br />Taurean Watkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604609379930060667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-54953643092838803022015-09-02T07:21:18.696-05:002015-09-02T07:21:18.696-05:00I think it's why I LOVE Micheal Hoeye's &q...<a href="https://youtu.be/cJIIAcJubZs?list=PLRMok0pg8Zsb0PcXeZdlzJ-wJ4E8bH98T" rel="nofollow">I think it's why I LOVE Micheal Hoeye's "Hermux Tantamoq Adventure" series so much</a>. They are GREAT books first and foremost, but the cast is clearly adult, echoing the "Redwall" example Joanne mentioned above. <br /><br />But what sets it APART from Redwall series is that it's not of the clan-based warfare mold that animal fantasy in particular is often annoyingly typecast as. But that's a whole other topic I won't go into here.<br /><br />I think we sometimes as writers get over-obsessed with ageism in kidlit.<br /><br />Anyway, I can relate to Hermux in that real exciting things in my life didn't start happen until I was older, and no, I didn't get involved in murder cases or anything.<br /><br />But I find that more in my reach since my childhood is behind me <b>(even though I'm biologically closer to it than most of my writer friends)</b> but as I have to remind them, youth alone isn't everything, and it's not easy when you're constantly aware of your mortality every day. <br /><br />I didnt' grow up naively blind to my mortality, and I often felt when people told me to be "patient" it's like they give off the impression that just because I'm not eligible for AARP, I've got "infinite time" and I don't. None of us do.<br /><br />Again, I probably misread that, but it does feel that way, and why I didn't like to disclose my age a few year ago, like my pain is invalid because I haven't seen my kids die, lived the H** of war, etc. Like anything I felt is nothing compared to what other face.<br /><br />I know they're trying to be supportive when they say this, but that's like telling a new mom, "You'll get to sleep again when they're in college or get a job" and again, sometimes this is said in jest, but I don't it's healthy to normalize putting yourself last ALL THE TIME.<br /><br />To be continued...<br />Taurean Watkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604609379930060667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-20293108208338955072015-09-02T07:12:00.377-05:002015-09-02T07:12:00.377-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Taurean Watkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604609379930060667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2173408054965817352.post-62611338346178723192015-09-02T07:06:09.827-05:002015-09-02T07:06:09.827-05:00I've thought a lot about this lately.
This i...I've thought a lot about this lately. <br /><br />This is certainly why I mostly write animal stories because I don't like dealing with the particulars and politics of humans.<br /><br />Though even then, I get questions from EXACTLY how old everyone is, and I hate to answer because I know I'll hear some variant of "If we want kids to read, they have to be in the lead." So personally, I feel that's too narrow. <br /><br />Before I go on, I do have to acknowledge that part of the instance of kid or teen driven stories is because we can risk coming off like a boring "know it all" thinly disguised moral tale devoid of entertainment and strong storytelling.<br /><br />But to me, that's a different problem than giving adults a meaningful place in the story, whether or not they "star" in it. <br /><br />I think I'm especially torn here because I didn't have the kind of childhood I want to "brag" about, and I sometimes I feel left out when I talk with other writers who had the kind of family life or school environment I could dream of, and at times I misread people who may be joking, but that doesn't I'd find it funny even if I read the situation "right."<br /><br />Or I'll read a picture book I LOVE, but also makes me sad because reminds me of what I didn't have, and a range of bittersweet emotions flow through me.<br /><br />To be continued...Taurean Watkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604609379930060667noreply@blogger.com