Happy New Year!
Project Mayhem sends you and yours very warm wishes for a happy and prosperous 2012. May you have many wonderful writing successes.
For this first post of the brand new year, I’d thought I’d blog about a topic that seems to keep coming up lately in my own writing circles: word count. Just recently, I had a conversation with a local children’s writer who was fretting because her middle-grade manuscript was nearly 80,000 words, a length she feared would turn off prospective agents and editors.
We’ve all heard a lot about what the word count should be for a middle-grade manuscript. The numbers vary, but a couple of years ago, it seemed like 20,000 to 40,000 got tossed around a lot as a standard range.
Whoops—guess I’m not very good at following standards. Both of my published middle-grade novels came in well over the high end of that range, IVY’S EVER AFTER clocking in at almost double with 75,000, and sequel IVY AND THE MEANSTALK a leaner but still lengthy 56,000. Guess I don’t follow “the rules” very well.
I was really, really worried that length was going to be an issue for the original IVY. I figured the very first thing my editor would request was that I cut a chapter or two—or ten. Imagine my surprise—and delight—to discover that my editor had a really easygoing and fabulous attitude about the length of a book. “If it holds kids’ interest, they’ll read it, no matter how long it is,” she said. After all my fretting and worrying, tossing and turning at night, telling myself I must cut, cut, cut and trim, trim, trim, in the end, the length of the book wasn’t even an issue for my editor at all.
And really, do old word count “rules” still apply anymore? With the longest of the Harry Potter books, HARRY POTTER AND THE ORDER OF THE PHOENIX, tipping the scale at 870 printed pages, and lengthy middle-grade reads like INKHEART and ERAGON and their various sequels topping bestsellers’ lists, hasn’t it been proven that young readers aren’t intimidated by a hefty length?
Currently, the Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators (SCBWI) lists the market trend for middle-grade manuscripts as 100 – 250 typewritten pages. With one-inch margins and 12-point Times New Roman font (also recommended by current SCBWI guidelines), 200 typewritten pages comes in at about 56,000 words on my word processor, so it sounds like that old 40,000 cap, at least, might be a thing of the past.
What do you think? Is there still an “acceptable” word count for middle grade? What kind of word counts do your manuscripts sport?
-Dawn Lairamore
I think it depends on the genre. My experience has been that fantasy is allowed to be big and fat, but historical fiction had better keep it slim. My published YA historical was on the plump side at 420 pgs, and even the most glowing professional reviews include a phrase like "in spite of its length ..."
ReplyDeleteI learned my lesson!
I can't speaking to writing, but Dianne is right about the genre being a critical factor. a fantasy novel can be huge, but a sports book should be in thAt golden 150-200 pages. Remember that a LOT of middle grade novels are read for school assignments, and not all students are strong readers. If they have to read three books a month, they are going to pick something shorter! It's always good to keep one's audience in mind. Thanks for addressing the topic.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the genre is important, especially if there's a lot of world-building. But in general, it's probably better to err on the side of shorter than longer. There are lots of kids who won't pick up a book that looks too thick.
ReplyDeleteI agree with all the above, about genre being important. You have to think about the type of kid that reads your type of books. Some are bookworms that crave the mighty tomes, others are reluctant readers barely willing to crack open a book. Variety is good. :)
ReplyDeleteI followed the 20-40,000 word recommendation (it clocked in at 36 thou.) for my first novel, only to be told by an agent at a conference that it was too short. My new novel is going to be in the 50 thousand word range.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure of the word counts, but in my recent experience being a first round panelist for the Cybils, most of the novels were less than 200 printed pages. I'm sure the fantasy/SF panelists had to deal with much lengthier works.
Recently a young editor told me that her senior editors at the imprint told her that my 65,000 upper MG historical fantasy, thatshe had requested and seemed to like, was far too long to consider acquiring. She said they wanted manuscripts in the 25,000 to 35,000 word range, like Bridge to Terabithia. I was a bit baffled by that, other than the part where she said no.
ReplyDeleteI think it also depends on where it falls on the MG spectrum. An upper-middle-grade fantasy novel: you bet! 70K no problem. But MG also includes younger readers - think the RAMONA QUIMBY books - or serials that would fall in a much lower word count.
ReplyDeleteI think word count is definitely not something to worry about on a first draft. But during revisions, make it as lean as possible. Cut as much as you can to keep the story tight. And then cut some more. :) I agree that genre is important here - fantasy novels include a lot of world building, which I think is one of the main reason wordcount is typically higher. I could see that being true with some historical fiction as well, but not so much with contemporary fiction. But, in the end, if every scene is important, and you're still clocking in the 60-70K range, maybe your story needs it.
I work with people as an independent editor, and have also worked in-house. Many of the manuscripts I read are longer *than they need to be.* It's not a question of what's "acceptable," but of what works, in other words.
ReplyDeleteDon't take Harry Potter or Eragon as license to bloat! Take a hard look at your manuscript and cut it if you can.
It's hard for writers if editors don't even have a set standard from house to house. I've heard you shouldn't go too short, but Kell's experience is a bit baffling. 65K doesn't seem huge to me. My latest manuscript is 55K, but that just works out to be a good length for me to tell a fast-paced story.
ReplyDeleteThis is always a tricky one. So many contrasting opinions. Here's how I weigh in, though. I did a book review here for RETURN TO EXILE a while back, which I really loved, but I thought was too long at 500 pages. Not too long for me, or too long because it's MG, but too long because the author was a debut novelist. I think it limits the kids librarians, teachers, and parents can recommend it to. On the other hand, if Rick Riordan puts out a 900 pages book you CAN recommend it because his name (and history) warrants it. Then there's the teacher in me, who sees kids reading every day. This where I say shorter--but not pencil thin--is better, because it is often a book they need to read in a month (many teachers, like me, have an IR program allowing students to choose a book each month to read independently). I actually have that book I reviewed as a part of my library, and I feature it each month, but there are only so many kids who won't be put off by the length, given that the author is new. Hope that makes sense. Oh, and in general, I always think 30-50K is reasonable and attractive for a DEBUT MG book.
ReplyDeleteI know this is all a matter of taste, but I think Harold has got it right on. I like tight stories that move. I get restless when an author over describes a scene or simple adds unneeded scenes, and this doesn't mean they are not well written scenes; they just bog down the story. I'm reading a book right now by a favorite author of mine and its 500+ pages. Trust me, there is about 200 pages this author could have cut. I've put the book aside for now, because its just not holding my interest.
ReplyDeleteI have read long books that held my interest through every scene. One example off the top of my head is an adult book, THE MEANING OF NIGHT, by the late (great) Michael Cox, long book, but to me, every scene was needed and worthwhile.
This is a great post and timely. For me a middle grade novel around 60-80k is perfect, but longer is sometimes better, though, many times not.
Speaking of long, sorry about the length of this comment! Ha, ha! :)
Hilary
I agree w/everyone who veers towards shorter. I've read a lot of MG books lately that run on far too long, and some are worth the length, but honestly very few. It seems a lot of well known authors have gone this route lately. I have no idea why. Maybe they think they owe their audience. I would rather spend my money on a 200 page book that was great, then a 400 page book that dragged.
ReplyDeleteIt also depends if you're a best-selling author or a newbie. The first Harry Potter was much shorter than the sequels. Once an author is known and loved, people will buy and read the books, no matter how long they are.
ReplyDeleteI agree that genre matters, as well as the idea that a well-established and favorite author can get away with longer books than a newbie.
ReplyDeleteI obsess over word count a bit, because I think it's a silly, arbitrary thing (and because I'm a serious over-writer, my current WIP is one I've been trying to trim to 120k for a LONG time).
ReplyDeleteIn the end, I think the story counts so much more than the length, and I get the feeling word count is only considered important for a debut novel.
I think it depends on who ends up with it, and I also think there is more leeway with longer word counts than with shorter. My agent told me I HAD to reach 35,000 words or she wouldn't feel as comfortable submitting it.
ReplyDeleteI, too, am surprised to hear of Kell's experience. 65K sounds very reasonable to me for an upper middle-grade fantasy, especially as middle-grade books seem to be getting longer all the time. But as with so many things, it's all dependent on the publisher.
ReplyDeleteMy manuscript which eventually came out as The Ghost on the Stairs was about 20,000 words when I submitted it. The editor at Aladdin said it needed to be 35,000 words, because that was standard for their paperback series for ages 9 to 12. Fortunately, I was able to add enough twists, turns, and subplots to bring it up to length without boring padding. That's an unusually specific situation, though. Most books have much more flexibility.
ReplyDeleteMy most current MG is almost 70k on the nose, though it is steampunk, which gets away under the fantasy umbrella, to some extent. I haven't been asked to change the word count in any way - yet.
ReplyDeleteThe WIP is about 60k, and I'm trying to keep it there. I do fight with myself over describing every element of every scene - which I would love to do - and it gets easier to cut when I'm in the middle of reading an absolutely fantastic story, and get annoyed by all the excessive description.
So I see that this article is from over a year ago. Do you think that this information/standard is still in place? It's a good article and I just wanted to make sure I was following the right idea that you present here.
ReplyDelete